What People Are Really Hearing in Your Voice with Tracy Goodwin

Megan shares her journey of discovering her authentic voice with voice mentor Tracy Goodwin, who teaches the psychology of the voice and helps people uncover their vocal superpowers. Tracy shares her expertise in transforming voices and lives through psychology and voice coaching.

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Podcast Transcript:

What People Are Really Hearing… Your Voice with Tracy Goodwin

Megan Blacksmith  

Oh my goodness. That was so, so good. I just interviewed I just finished interviewing my current voice mentor Tracy Goodwin, I have been in a program with her for eight weeks now. She teaches the psychology of the voice. So it’s a voice coaching program, although it is unlike any other voice coaching program I’ve ever heard of or participated in. And every, every time I talk to her, she connects another dot for me. So it’s about the voice. And we do all I’m sure everyone here is very aware of how much the voice is tied to your authenticity, your vulnerability, right like whether you feel safe to share we the voice and our voice story. Something I dug into deeply with her how I got to where I am with my voice, being a person who mind you was afraid to even answer a question at the dinner table as a kid I did not like my dad would have us go around and say what did you learn today or what went well today, and I got nervous with that. So to go from that to hosting a podcast speaking on stages, hosting seven day events. Right, big shift. So it was cool to work. It’s been cool to work with Tracy and see what those stories are see what she calls masks voice masks, discover my vocal superpower. I share that at the end of the episode at the end of the interview, and I think you’re going to absolutely absolutely love this interview and her it’s about voice and it’s really not because it’s about your subconscious stories. I feel like this plays into so well the honesty journey that I’ve been sharing. I actually started with Tracy, it was eight, you know, eight weeks in and the honesty journey started three weeks ago. So I think this primed me for speaking, it primed me for honesty, right? I mean, it’s through the voice. So this has all just mesh together. So well. Let me just read Tracy’s official bio, which you won’t need because you’ll hear her voice and you’ll you can hear how authentic she is. It’s so cool. It’s I just immediately trusted her when I heard her I immediately wanted to work with her. So that’s what she teaches people to do. So Tracy Goodwin, owner of captivate the room and creator of psychology of the voice has taught 1000s of celebrities, professionals, entrepreneurs, like me, even Supreme Court justices how to transform their lives and the lives of their listeners with their voice by stepping into the power of their natural voice so that they amplify their authority and captivate the room. Tracy’s unique approach psychology, psychology of the voice gets to the core of limiting voice habits and transforms voices from the inside out. Yes, it does. Absolutely. I can 1,000% agree to this. So Tracy holds a BFA from Baylor University and a master’s degree. She has a new and noteworthy podcast to captivate the room and it’s highly sought after speaker on stages around the globe. She just spoke recently at James Wedmore event that I was at and all the different places she is so fun to listen to. I know you’re gonna get a lot out of today, please, we’d love if you love this episode, please take a screenshot share to a friend. If you’re willing to leave a review. That would mean the world to me. If you haven’t yet, and you’re a listener, a regular listener, or you just listened today and you like it. I know it’s kind of annoying, but please, please do it. Would you be willing? Send a screenshot I’m pretty sure depending on when this goes out, our team has prizes. People are winning stuff. So send us a screenshot. You can send it to at becoming zesty, on Instagram or support at becoming zesty.com Whatever it is, and if you have not yet joined us for our January habit event, we still have tickets January 19 and 20th. In Virginia Beach, two days. Amazing community amazing connection. We’re ending with a sound healing to lock it all in speaking of sound frequency amazingness. And we would love love, love to have you there. We’ll put the link in the show notes. Zest becomings st.com, forward slash Jan j n. All righty. Let’s get into the podcast interview. everyone and welcome back to the zesty podcast. I am here with a special guest today. Tracy, welcome Tracy to the podcast.

Tracy Goodwin  

Oh, thank you so much for having me. I’m really delighted to be here.

Megan Blacksmith  

I am super delighted for you to be here. I’ve been spending a lot of time with Tracy and the last gosh, like feels like a long time but maybe only five or six weeks. What has it been? I don’t know. 

Tracy Goodwin  

Well I think we’re at about eight weeks now. I think this is week eight. Yep.

Megan Blacksmith  

Okay, so I am currently in Tracy’s program, you’re gonna get to hear all about what she does. And I have had huge shifts in the last eight weeks, which many of you have recognized on the podcast in my voice. And today is going to be about the voice. So, Tracy, I’d love for you to just share a little bit more about you. What is your actual title? And then how did you get into this field to begin with?

Tracy Goodwin  

The hardest question has now been asked, What is your title? Because if I say, voice coach, I hear the echoes of all the students over the years saying whatever you do, don’t call yourself a voice coach, because that’s not what you do. I work with the vehicle of the voice. I am a voice researcher and I transform lives in relation to the success that you’re drawing in or not the inner freedom you have or not all based on sounds in your voice from the subconscious perspective, which is different than typical voice coaching. So that’s my long version title.

Megan Blacksmith  

It’s totally different. And that’s why I I’ll say I’m working with a voice coach, and then I feel like I need to clarify. Well, not probably what you’re thinking we’re going into our subconscious stories are going deep.

Tracy Goodwin  

Yeah, a lot of times, I’ll say I’m a voice coach. And the response, which is an obvious one is Oh, I did choir in high school. Or oh, like speaking on a stage. And the truth is I don’t actually work with that many speakers on the stage. I work with a lot of people that end up speaking on a stage but voices voice Royce’s voice right now you can never get on a podcast, never run a business. You’re still using your voice.

Megan Blacksmith  

I love that. What led you to the voice?

Tracy Goodwin  

Well, you know, people will say how did you get into this? And my response is always the same. I say kicking and screaming. And the reason is because I could not wrap my mind around how in the world was I supposed to be a voice coach, because I was actually raised in a family where I wasn’t allowed to speak. And there were a lot of catastrophic things. And that’s being a little dramatic, but not really dramatic. That happened in my life up to the point that I became a voice coach. And so in my mind, even though there were signs everywhere, that this is what I was supposed to do, including the way that I hear seven layers of sound. I couldn’t imagine doing it because I thought I would be a fraud. And I became an actor. I became a director I directed plays all over the world and this is Yellow Pages days, and people kept finding me to coach their voices, and my actors won awards for their voices. I didn’t want to be an actor, I quit being an actor very, very early. And all these things kept happening around me coaching people’s voices. And then one day I got it, I went, like at it. This is why I was born into that family. This is that was the training ground, the mastery of, of what I can hear. That was that was something I mastered as a child, navigating an environment that I never really knew how it was going to go. So that’s how I got into it. I started as a dialect person, I taught dialects to actors. And I took dialects away from business people. Interestingly enough, that’s what we did. 35 years ago, we don’t do that anymore, thank goodness. And one of the largest companies in the world, brought me in to coach their C suite, who had Texas dialects. And it was in that process and in that dialect work, that I actually figured out the foundation of what I teach today. And at that point, I was all in, I moved to New York, I worked for Mike Nichols, I started coaching businesses, huge companies, entrepreneurs, and everything has been about research since day one, absolutely obsessed. Today, I’ve done over 35 research studies. And I never ever would have imagined that what I thought was the greatest challenge and cost me the most would actually be the greatest gift.

Megan Blacksmith  

Wow, what did you hear in that room with the Texas accent? 

Tracy Goodwin  

Well what what really miffed me, for lack of a better word was the setup on why they were bringing me in. And this was a huge company. And they all had Texas dialects. I’m from Texas, they had Texas accents. And they were concerned that they were not going to sound smart. And that’s what miffed me the most, because I’m thinking y’all are run in one of the largest companies in the world. Back then. How is it that you’re not going to be perceived as smart. I never heard the voices that way. But I could hear the layers of the internal noise, I could hear all the things that you hear me teach to like where they’re working from voice masks, it just all hadn’t been labeled yet. But it was centered around dialects. But it became so much more in that moment. Because I can hear someone speaking, and they can have a Texas dialect, I can hear how smart they are. In fact, I can hear when people have had years of therapy. But they’ve not done any voice work because their voice, the therapy is not in there has not been transferred into the muscle memory of the voice to change the voice. The voice is still working old habits. But we have this perception around dialects. And everything else this person is you fill in the blank based on something that we hear. And that became the fascination point for me. That a dialect, there could be a perception of a misrepresentation. But the truth is, that’s the body of work is that everybody’s voice is misrepresenting them, because of how the voice is created.

Megan Blacksmith  

Wow. So that’s what you’re hearing. I know, you’ve said I forget how many seconds but within what three to 15 seconds, you are already hearing their stories, know whether you trust them, you know whether you’d buy from them, and that you’re hearing in that

Tracy Goodwin  

That’s right, because of your seven layers of sound. And it was actually a coach one time that had been a former student of mine, and I rattled off something about seven layers of sound. And she said, what did you just say? And I said, Oh, yeah, hear seven layers of sound. And she said, I’ve never heard you talk about this. And I said, I don’t I just fix it. And she said, well tell me about the seven layers of sound, the seventh layer of sound. And if you think about layers buried down, the seventh layer is our real voice, with all the things that we are not revealing to the world. The first six are all our psychology of the voice things, all our voice masks all the way we’re protecting ourselves through sounds. I hear all of that. I can instantly say things like, Oh, you’re outcome driven. You’re a problem solver. Probably to the point of no time for Idiocracy. You’re outcome driven. Oh, you’re a people pleaser. What are you trying to prove? I hear the whole thing and I I knew that I could Hear that way. But I did a workshop about I don’t know, 20 years ago, and this maybe longer, this young man did a role play. And I looked at him and I said, Oh, I get it. You fell in love with some girl, and you moved down to Texas, and she broke your heart, and you don’t know what you’re gonna do. You’re thinking about moving back to the East Coast, Maryland, but you don’t know what you want to do. You don’t really want to go back to Maryland, you like Austin, but you got this whole situation going on? And of course, he looked at me and he said, How did you know that? And I said, I heard it in sound. And I looked around the room. And I asked the people in the room who were kind of backing away, freaked out. And I said, Did you all hear what I just labeled? And they said, now we do. So then it was game on and I spent 10 years studying, am I calling what is being processed in the subconscious of the listener. And I couldn’t get it wrong. I was trying actually Megan to get it wrong. But I because I couldn’t bear the thought of saying to somebody, they’re processing, he was condescending, and I was wrong. But that’s how the brain the subconscious is processing sound, and making decisions. And then we wonder why we’re not having the relationship or the success or the sales or whatever it is. But we don’t think about how our voice is being processed by the listener. And so it becomes this huge source of misrepresentation of our reel of who we really are, I had a client one time, she said, You’re not doing voice, you’re, you’re doing identity, you found my identity through sound.

Megan Blacksmith  

Well, we’re eight weeks in, and I know I’ve experienced this. So this is 100%. True. And especially I think everyone here Tracy is, you know, they following along with us. So they’re interested in subconscious reprogramming and the work that we’re doing on the beliefs. And that was the part that was so cool. And fascinating to me was that I couldn’t have shifted the beliefs and they’ll still be heard in my voice. And so I remember saying to you like, Okay, so are we shifting the beliefs? And then it shifts the voice? Or are we shifting the voice and then shifts the beliefs? And I mean, your answer was somewhat both, right? both.

Tracy Goodwin  

It’s both. And this is the problem with typical voice technique. And I don’t mean, this is a criticism. But I’m wanting to tell a little story, so that it’s really drives at home, there was a man that came to work with me, and he talked really fast. And he came in and he said are you know, you’re gonna tell me to talk fast, all the other voice coaches told me to stop slow down, and I’m not, you know, because I know it goes I lalalalala. And off he went. And I said, I don’t know if that’s what I’m going to tell you or not. I need to know why you’re talking fast. Well, we’ve started unraveling the internal stories that had the external habit in place. And it turns out when he was a child, they would sit at the dinner table, Dad would come home from work, he adored his father, there were several children, Mom and Dad would talk during dinner. And then dinner would be over and the dad would look at his watch and point to the child and go, your turn, go. And they would get a minute. And so I could tell him to slow down a million times. But it wasn’t going to stick until we could rewrite what was going on internally. Like I have to hurry up, I’m going to run out of time. So he was a business person. He was going into pitches and even speaking and all these things really, really fast. And that’s actually one of the worst tactics you can do of all the techniques and they will go fast. And then he wasn’t getting where he wanted to be. But we changed the story. And then I never had to tell him to slow down again. So I might have to take on a habit, I might take on the habit and let the habit rewrite the story. But that’s the thing I think that becomes so important is that people really understand that their voice represents the belief. And we don’t know the story. If I’m listening to you, and I hear you don’t think I’m going to buy from you. I don’t know the backstory. I just know fill in the blank and I fill in that blank. So we really have to do both and I don’t know would you say that? It’s heavy on technique. I wouldn’t say I don’t think this work is heavy on technique. I give you something that works but I it’s not like warm up practice do it again. It’s just not that

Megan Blacksmith  

it to me it’s a very experimental or embodied experience where you are doing the thing real time feedback and then having Yeah, the understanding I know in the maybe set In our third session, I remember you said, Okay, everybody time to share something, we just give two or three minutes. And I went blank and cried and went into that old story of, if I’m put on the spot, what am I sharing, or actually discovered much more about my voice story from that of like, a brother who was just like, No, you will never share, I’ll always talk over you, and I’ll put you down. So this, the voice had so much involved with it, and just just realizing, in that session, realizing that old pattern was enough to shift that. Well, and

Tracy Goodwin  

that’s really what we’re doing. We’re playing out what I call voice habit. So you in that example, and that question forgotten about that you don’t even do that anymore. I’ve completely forgotten about that week, too. But we could take the man that goes fast, he’s got a boys habit of going fast, going slow, won’t fix it. Because we’ve got to look at that internal story. In the research, the very first research study that I did was the one that showed me before we were five years old, one phrase determines how we’re going to use our voice the rest of our life. Now, I’ve since redone that study. And now what I’m seeing is, it’s before we’re too, we’re putting on our first voice mask. And I don’t think that it is intentional. I don’t think your brother or my parents, or now maybe, but I think across the board, and I say this for all the parents who are panicking right now that they’ve screwed up their children. I don’t want you to feel that way. I don’t think my mother was wringing her hands going, watch me mess up her voice. I think we are not taught these things. I do not think we are taught the power of the sounds in our voice. I do not think we’re taught to communicate, and we come out of the womb like little movie cameras. Why did I give people the silent treatment growing up? Because I was given the silent treatment. I didn’t know why I was just copying and creating a habit around Oh, when this happens, this is what you do. But really, what got us here is not going to get us there for sure, based on the data I see now. But I think it’s about to me, it’s about internal freedom. I don’t want you going oh, well, you know, I don’t want you playing that story out that your brother it knows more smarter or your dad story or you know, whatever it is. That’s what to me this work is about which sometimes has nothing to do with sound.

Megan Blacksmith  

What is the biggest blocker of the voice that you see? Is it related to the stories?

Tracy Goodwin  

It’s different with everybody voice stories are huge. Sometimes there is a core driver, which you and your people might think of as a, I would think you’ll do, you’ll have like a main belief. Sometimes there’s one hard core, through line belief that all a lot of other beliefs stem from not necessarily one necessarily. Okay. Sometimes in voice there can be a core driver. And that core driver might be no one wants to hear what I have to say. And not one is going to show up all the time. But then there’s all these other stories that come from our experiences. Our parents, our siblings, bosses relationships, Joe the doorman, everybody’s saying something to us all the time. And the subconscious is going, yep. Okay, that’ll hurt your heart. We’re gonna reframe this. I don’t know if voice stories are where people are working from our that from a foundation level, those are two of the biggest things that I have to deal with. But I think the external biggest thing I have to deal with his voice masks. Let me pretend let me be a professional. Let me keep you happy. Let me prove to you I know what I’m talking about. I think when people say, I don’t really like my voice, or I don’t think my voice is working for me. They’re referring to an external sound. We have to have both. And so it’s really a tough call to say is it the voice mask? Isn’t the internal voice stories or driver? Tomato tomahto. Really, but I think more of a war happens with the masks because we don’t hear them. We don’t recognize they’re there. If I start talking to you, and asking you questions, and you uncover a belief it becomes very real. If I say What are you trying to prove? You’re going to go nothing. With anything prove mask is how you’re going to say it. And you can’t hear it. Because your subconscious is trained you not to hear it most of the time. So that gets that and then we don’t want to let them go. Because if we let them go then all of a sudden Whoa, now we really are seeing now we really are heard now I’ve really got to be uncomfortable. I don’t get the funniest thing people that want to work with you. i These people aren’t hearing me Tracy. And then we get about three weeks and and they’re like, I don’t know what to do. They’re hearing me what do I do? That’s what you want that

Megan Blacksmith  

new problem? Well, the peacekeeping mask was the one that really stood out for me and it’s been fabulous. The timing of everyone’s been listening in the honesty journey and the pot the last podcast that I had with my husband, Nate, it really started though with the with the voice program with you. The peacekeeping mask was really opened up to me and then that book specifically is all about the Peacekeeper, so is the peacekeeping mask. Tell me how that plays out? Or what you hear? Yeah,

Tracy Goodwin  

it is. It is above all the others it is the one I see the most the one I deal with the most I would say eight out of 10 people are wearing or maybe more. Eight out of 10 or nine out of 10 of my people are wearing the it’s really a people pleaser mask, I tend to call it a peacekeeper mask, because I think that I want I want my number one goal is always for whatever I say to be received. Because that’s the only way I can help you. And I have to say a lot of hard things. So I adjust that just a little bit rather than constantly people pleaser people, pleaser, people pleaser. I think it’s received a little bit better. It is a bucket of things that are working against the listener that are working against you and I could about people pleasing anybody. There was nobody that could people please better than me. And I had to I had to do this work myself. But people pleasing means and a lot of it comes from societal implications. It means I have to keep you happy. I have to be nice. I have to be nice. Well, what do you really want to say? Well, I can’t say that I have to be nice. And so what happens is we have this a piece of any mask feels like a piece of bulletproof glass between us. So I’m talking to you a certain way. Now this is how I talk all the time, I may have a little bit more ramped up vocal energy because I’m excited to be here. But I can put on my professional mask. And now everything’s changed. But I am a highly trained professional. And I want to sound like a professional. So see, we put these sounds on what a people pleaser is going to put on is under no circumstances can I authentically show up as myself? Because there’s no way that’s enough? Because there no way they’re going to like that. There’s no way they’re going to just buy based on the fact that I’m really good at what I do. They’re not about to listen. So we’ve got all these things. So in this people pleaser mask, Peacekeeper mask, we’ve got tentativeness. Yeah, I can get you some results. Sounds like it? Well, my mind is saying if I tell them I can transform their life, they’re gonna think I’m arrogant. And I don’t want to sound arrogant. So I’m just I’m just gonna kind of diminish you. And I think we could I think we could probably do something. I know we could do it. But I couldn’t dare express that. So asking for permission, people that have a lilt, everything becomes a question. And I can’t really even do it without tilting my head. Everything becomes a question. They’re processing. Why are you asking me I thought you were the expert. We’ve got justification, convincing, don’t say anything. All of this is sounds, it’s manifesting and sounds and is 100% blocking connection, which is the most critical thing people are seeking now and that’s a data point. Not just this is my opinion point. But we learn it as children. And it’s really a survival thing in many, many ways. I gotta fit into this tribe. I can’t get kicked out of this tribe. sense of belonging is how accents are created. I need to sound like a Texan so that I fit into the Texas family even though I really want to sound Irish but if I sound Irish I’m not going to fit into the Texas family they’re gonna go What does she sound like that for? But we we pick this mascot because In part as well because society says we have to. And for women, there are societal implications on women’s voices, there are societal implications on men’s voices. And women are constantly trained to believe I’ve gotta be nice. Or I’ve got to make him like me. Well, it’s not nice to be direct. Okay, let’s look at that. So we’ve got all this I’m so bold as to say the word indoctrination. That happens. That really says to us, you can be anybody but who you are. Just don’t be you. Okay? Just keep everybody happy. Keep them liking. Yeah. And, and those paradigms have shifted. And those are the scripts that I’m most excited about flipping right now. I don’t have to have you like me, for me to transform your life. And what is nice anyway? It’s not at all what you think it is. That’s my thoughts on people pleasing mask.

Megan Blacksmith  

So then Tracy, what are the people hearing? So if I’m using the peacekeeping mask, the person listening to me is picking up essentially on a mismatch or lack of confidence or right this that’s what they’re taking in, even if my words are amazingly crafted.

Tracy Goodwin  

Ask me a question. As an undergrad, just ask me a question. Asked me another question, asked me some simple question.

Megan Blacksmith  

Like, what color’s your sweater?

Tracy Goodwin  

Red. Okay, in my mind, I could have gone well, if I say red, she’s gonna think I’m making fun of her red hair. And I don’t want her to think I’m making fun of her red hair. So I’m gonna go, it’s, it’s red. When I really want to go, it’s red. It’s absolutely my favorite color, kind of like your hair, you got gorgeous red hair. But I’m not gonna say that because I don’t want to, you know, and now we’ve got the cancel culture, feeding into all of this as well. So this people pleasing, has gone to a whole new level of Don’t rock the boat, whatever you do. Let’s say I’m teaching a controversial topic. And controversial in my world is I don’t believe in practice. I don’t want my people. I like reps. And I like the right kind of practice. But I don’t do this typical. Everybody’s telling everybody to practice it. There’s a huge problems with that. But you could say to me, well, what’s the number one thing that you really don’t want people doing? And I go, I’m gonna go into panic mode. Because they’re not gonna like this, they’re not gonna like it, and they’re probably they’re never gonna hire me. And then they’re probably even going to send Megan some bad comments, and then she’s going to be mad. And then, you know, this whole spiral of how I’m going to end up homeless on the streets happens simply from a question about practice. So I might, if I’m a people pleaser, with this mask with these sounds, I would probably do a lot of buffering, which is filler words, I would probably go well, you know, here’s the thing. I, you know, it’s like, well, kind of, you know, a lot of people don’t really look at it this way. You know, and I kind of, sort of see things a little different. After having done this for 30. Well, a long time. I don’t think it’s always a great idea to practice. That might be people pleasing. What I’m really going to do is I’m going to say, here’s the thing that is going to go against the grain of everything you’ve ever been taught, which is you’ve got to stop practicing. You can’t rely on practicing because it’s actually affecting your brain and what it’s training your brain to do is to go okay, if I practice, I’m good enough. If I don’t, I’m not and the world is going to teach you to practice but I’m going to tell you reps are good, have the right thing. But building the illusion that well what’s gonna happen when you turn the corner and your greatest mentor and one of your favorite client who doesn’t know you says, Hey, what do you do? What are you gonna do? Are you gonna go Hold on I gotta go practice. No, you’re not okay, so that was an example of people pleaser version. I’m not people pleasing version. I’m owning what I believe to be true. Because I’ve released the outcome of your judgment. And that is critical in voice. I am not worried about your judgement. Do I want you to like me? Of course I want you to like me. Am I okay? If you don’t? Yeah. Am I going to change who I am to make sure you do to make sure you think I’m nice. No, I’m going to serve my purpose well, and you can’t do both.

Megan Blacksmith  

asking permission was one of the really big takeaways I got from your group really early on, in from just some small thing I noticed of when you we were required to we were you asked us to post three videos this week. And I noticed I wanted to give explanation. Each time I wanted to write this whole, oh, I chose this topic because blah, blah, blah, or, sorry, my hair’s not brushed on. I noticed this. And something you said early on about asking permission and the voice. I said, Okay, I’m not going to do that in this group. And so I consciously when I would want to explain, just decide not to. And it’s so fascinating. What happened as soon as I just decided not to. So is asking permission, one of one of the most common things that you see.

Tracy Goodwin  

Yeah, I think all roads in this work ultimately lead to the final destination is worth. And I think we don’t lead with that in the marketing materials. As one of my students pointed out to me one time, we got to the end of the class, and she was like, you know, you never mentioned worth in the in the marketing materials. But that’s really what we’ve been working on. It is it’s about worth it’s about I am enough, it is about rejection and fear of judgment and, and fear of abandonment. And so when I am working under when those are my drivers, then I have to ask your permission, because I’m terrified not to. And there is a lot of ways that asking for permission manifest, it can manifest and it what you’re talking about as justification. And giving me i in the in a corporate group the other day, this is this person was justifying their belief, and I don’t want you to have to justify anything here. I mean, I just stopped her in her tracks. Because those, these are the habits that we’ve that we’ve trained. Well, I know my hair doesn’t, I wouldn’t even think in that. Because we built this concept internally, that I have to keep everybody happy. I’ve got two people, please. That’s the only way I stand a chance of winning anything. And I already know what they’re thinking, I already know is not working in my favor. And so we go into this. And when we go into this asking for permission, this justification this, let me tell you all the reasons why I really am worthy enough to stand here and say this to you. I don’t want that. I want you to come in out of the gate strong. And so we really are sewing up a lot of wounds. And I think that the voice is full of wounds. But what I hear people do a lot is yeah, maybe they’re doing the justifying or convincing or adding in a lot of words. But maybe they’re turning everything into a question. Right? It’s really good. Is it because they’re so terrified to not rock the boat, they don’t want to rock the boat. And it all goes back to old proof. I rocked the boat when I was three and my Kendrick, my pre K teacher had a meltdown. I dropped KoolAid on the carpet and my mother had a meltdown, okay, can’t be that you can’t be yourself. Keep them happy. And then you won’t get yelled at Well, here’s the bad news. You might get yelled at no matter what. And you have no control over that. And that’s another big illusion. I think that’s happening, especially with people pleasers is it happens with everybody but with people pleasers, we we believe we’ve bought into this illusion that if we can act, right, we can control the outcome. We can’t. I mean, I’ll just let you have a minute on that. We can’t control the outcome. And that’s part of what we’re trying to do. And asking for permission and justifying and I won’t even say anything is the extreme we get to people that just won’t even say anything anymore, which is devastating to me.

Megan Blacksmith  

You said on our call today, I’d never thought of it this way but adding a lot of detail for those of us. Maybe me who like to talk a lot add a lot of detail can be a form of protection. Can you talk about that?

Tracy Goodwin  

Sure. We’re all trying to protect ourselves for two for two weeks. Since one, I cannot let you in. Because surely, if I let you in, you’re going to find out that I’m not all that, because that’s what I truly believe. So we have this protection, that I gotta keep you out. And then the second part is I have to keep myself safe. And this is where when we talk about things like imposter syndrome, I’ll tell you one that I hear all the time, from probably, I’d have more data on women, they’ll be in a corporate role, and they’re terrified, they’re gonna find out, somebody’s gonna find out, they don’t have a college degree. All these things that we’re protecting, we’re protecting, I don’t think I’m good enough, we’re protecting I don’t think I’m smart enough. I’m protecting that. I don’t think anybody likes me. I’m protecting you fill in the blank while we’re doing it in sound. And we go a lot of different ways to create these protection mechanisms. One is voice masks. Two could be shutting down silent treatment. But one is if I give all the details, then I will have so much information, I will overwhelm their brain and they won’t even listen anyway. Here’s an example. I could say something like I really got my feelings hurt last week, when people weren’t signing up for my free training. Okay, now, let’s just take that right there. And we could go okay, that Whoa, that makes you look like you don’t have a following that makes it look like you don’t even have a business, who’s going to sign up for somebody that nobody believes in, sign up for their free training. So my brain goes, which none of which is true. My brain will go Yeah, but if you go into like deep, deep, deep detail about all the things you’re going to cover in the training and all the reasons why everybody should join and you go on and on for 10 minutes, then you’ll then now join, no, that was the slam dunk to ensure that they do not listen to anything you say. Because first of all, they have no clue what you’re talking about. Second of all, the attention span of the human brain is four seconds. And here I am talking about the phalanges and the silver buckles on the black shoes. And I don’t know if anybody likes the black shoe, but I really liked the black shoe. But I was it was interesting. The day that I picked the black shoes, because I wasn’t thinking about it being slick. I mean, I knew it was raining, I had to actually check the forecast the night before and it said it’s 78% I mean, 78% my okay, you see what I’m doing there? What do they want to what do they want to hear? They want to hear you fell and were humiliated? Because what not to make fun of you. Because that opens up a space where they can go, she’s not going to make fun of me. And we we protect ourselves from feeling from play. Let it from connection from Yeah, I’m a human. Because there’s so much in our world that says no, you got to be perfect. You better get those words, right, you better act like you’re a big deal. You better be perfect. And if you do, then they’ll by? No, actually they won’t. It’s when you let go of the silver buckles in the black shoes. And you talk about how you wept on the ground when the young man ran over to pick you up and laughed at you. Because it really crushed your soul. That’s when they go yep, that’s my person. I don’t know that was kind of a roundabout way to answer the question. But hopefully I answered it. Absolutely.

Megan Blacksmith  

I know, the people listening Tracy they like they like something to do or something to hold on to? Is there some kind of tip you can give a place to start? I don’t know if it’s a place to look or practice. But what could you do to help? What can people consider doing just to help get started on the voice journey?

Tracy Goodwin  

It’s it may surprise you. It may sound simple, you may be shocked that what I’m about to say actually has anything to do with voice. You have to be present in the conversations. Because all your problems, in fact, your voice will not work on any level. Unless you are in the conversation. If I’m already thinking about I wonder, I wonder what she’s going to ask me next. And then I wonder, I wonder if she’s thinking I’m doing a good job. I wonder if she’s happy. She brought me on the show, you know, I’m not here. And my voice will not work and all my insecurities and all my wounds and all my stories and all the things that I work from there in the past in the future. That’s why I can only have voice power if I’m right here in the conversation. And so every time you find yourself being off, they’re being off they’re deciding that right back in the conversation. And that alone can be a challenge initially, because we don’t spend time in the present mentally, where in the checklist or in what they’re thinking or where I’ve got to go now axed because we’ve made doing and busy, such an integral part of our protection. But getting back right into the conversation, I reckon a lot of people they’ve said, I don’t have time to do that, Tracy. And of course, my response is you don’t have time not to. Because I know we’re all busy. I like to do too. I’m obsessed with this work. I’m a borderline Okay, I am a workaholic. But I know this is where my power lies right here.

Megan Blacksmith  

That’s listening to the other person, and then being present and then also being present when you’re speaking. Yeah, both.

Tracy Goodwin  

Yeah, listening has come up three times this week in conversations classes. Maybe because I’ve got a little email series going out. And I sent out an email about listening. It is a very important lost art for the obvious reasons that how we want to make people feel. But what people don’t realize is it changes the way you sound. And if I’m not listening to you, if I’m already deciding what I want to interject next, to make sure I look good and sound good, and you like me, and everything’s great, then my sound is going to be more angular. And it’s like handing you a metal bowl, I mean, a metal box. But if I’m present, and I’m listening, and I’m pondering, and I take my time to respond, my sound changes. And it’s like, I hand you a ball. Now, which is close, which can you draw closer? Which one can you really embrace which one you really want to snuggle up to? It’s not the metal box. It’s the ball. So we need to listen so that we can hand people a bowl, because they’re potentially going to push the metal ball back the metal box back.

Megan Blacksmith  

This is making a lot of sense. Sometimes some interviews where I’ve really listened where I’m interviewing someone, I hear a weird sound in my voice in the questions. And it’s usually when I don’t know them that well. Interesting. Whereas I feel like I can just talk to you because I have, I didn’t really need to prepare. I have a had a list and I knew it would flow. Yeah. And when it’s like, oh, wow, this topic, I maybe don’t know what to ask them. I don’t know how they’re gonna respond. I don’t know where it’s gonna go. And then probably less present. That’s really interesting.

Tracy Goodwin  

And you know what I tell you to plug in there. I think I even said it today. I just trust that I’m going to know. It’s building that habit. It’s a new habit. Right now. We’re working off the habit of love got Judy, this afternoon, Judy doesn’t like me. And she’s really smart. Well, then I just automatically decimated my whole character and experience. Is it possible that Judy, and I could have a great conversation. And these are some of these the mental reframes that we do, we’ve got to rewrite some of that noise. And we got to start working from a different place. If we’re ever going to meet that quest of authenticity and connection, which really is the quest.

Megan Blacksmith  

That’s I remember you saying, that idea of reading the room, and how much I was, I can’t remember the word but when you’re anticipating what people will do, what’s that word?

Tracy Goodwin  

Did I say tentacles out? Maybe by talking about tentacles out? I’m not sure exactly how I phrased it. But we’re taught to read the room. And this is a big problem. This is a huge problem, especially in sales. I, I’ve been trained to read the room. I’ve been trained to look at your face and decide exactly what you’re thinking and then alter who I am. Because of what I think I think. And I tell people I will say, well, the only way you can know what I think is if you ask me, but here’s the thing, I could lie. We’ve got to stop giving our power away. I’ve got to bring the tent I like the imagery of an octopus. I call it tentacles out and I’m grabbing for something somewhere. Give me a sign that I’m doing a good job. Give me a sign that you like me, because if you do, then I can keep being what I’m being right now. Well, you know, I want you all to bring your tentacles back in and trust that I am being it. And if I want to know what you’re thinking I might ask, but I also know you don’t have to tell me the truth. And if you’re a people pleaser, major people pleaser and you don’t want to upset me Are you going to say I’m actually don’t like your offer? Film you’re not. So we’ve really got to bring our power back. And I’m going to work from this is who I am. If you don’t like me, no problem. If you don’t want to work with me, no problem. Getting okay with really Seeing that outcome is a big part of that.

Megan Blacksmith  

Because eventually you’ll get so much feedback that one person will like louder one person will like smoke one person will like when you’re funny when person wants you serious when you’re nobody anymore.

Tracy Goodwin  

Yeah. Yeah, because you’re trying to accommodate to meet everybody. And that’s why it’s so become so important. Like the work we’re doing right now that you’re playing all the shades of you. So that the one so that if you if it’s you, if you are funny, the funny guy here is if you are serious, this area, you know, we have all these shades in us that are buried under those layers that we’re not letting out. We’ve got to peel away the layers so that we can then reveal all the shades of who we are.

Megan Blacksmith  

Well, you all can thank Tracy because she told me my voice superpower is laughter or do I forget how it was fun? Fun, fun, fun. So I’ve been I’ve been embracing that one. Yeah,

Tracy Goodwin  

that is totally your voice superpower. And it we have to lead with our voice superpower. And a lot of times we don’t even reveal it. Because what if people don’t like it? You see what a rubber band ball it all is?

Megan Blacksmith  

And everyone’s is different.

Tracy Goodwin  

Their superpower? Yeah, I mean, there may be a lot of people that I I hear them talk and I go oh yeah, you’re real likeable. likability is your superpower. There’s a lot of people that I’ve plugged in, they weren’t making sales. And I said, Yeah, because you’re you sound like this. Are you sound like that? Or? i You sound arrogant. And I know you’re not arrogant. There was a young man I worked with he was coming across arrogant. Because he had an insecurity that he didn’t know enough. He was the most likable young man I’ve ever met. And I said, Okay, we’re not doing that anymore. We’re going to tap into this likeable. Within days, he closed a six figure deal. Because he was no longer being an authentic, he was no longer repelling potential customers with a sound that covered up and insecurity that he had. Now he was just being likable. And I trained him. I taught him did the work with him. So he could see that he would have the answers. We were talking about that earlier. We’re so afraid of all the things that haven’t even happened yet. And we’re creating all these layers to make sure we’re ready when they do. Well. Nobody can ever know who we are, if we’re doing all of that. Plus, it sounds exhausting.

Megan Blacksmith  

To me, it is exhausting. I’ve done it at

Tracy Goodwin  

you and everybody else in the world. We’ve all got massive layers until we pull them away. Right?

Megan Blacksmith  

Oh, this has been so good. Tracy, will you tell? Where can people find you? What do you have going on? What’s the best place to connect with you? Because I know. I know many people have reached out as I’ve been sharing about this voice coaching, psychology and ecology of the voice journey. So yeah,

Tracy Goodwin  

everywhere I am captivate the room, except for LinkedIn. I’m Tracy Goodwin over on LinkedIn, but I’m captivated the room.com. captivate the room on Facebook and Instagram. That’s the best place to find me. And I’m always posting about what’s going on, I pretty much have everything honed into the group, you’re doing the similar to the group that you’re doing. It’s such a successful group, that I’m not in this moment, I don’t have it all figured out yet. But in this moment, I’m not thinking I don’t think I’m going to do anything else. But this small container group in 2024. I do work with a few people privately. But I think the group is so good, that that’s really where I want people to go, because I know how much they get out of it. And I know I’ll run it again in January. I’m actually doing an enrollment soon for January. And then I’ll do it a few more times in the year. But that’s that’s the best place. If you follow me on social media, you will know what I’ve got going on.

Megan Blacksmith  

Okay. Yeah, I the small group has been amazing because as we, the group of us are all supporting each other and, and it’s very small. So you very small, you get many chances to

Tracy Goodwin  

eight Max, it’s eight Max and I generally stay with six. But everybody works every week, and that’s why it works. So it’s so you really do get a transformation. It’s not a theory thing. And I think we really have to have that kinesthetic piece. I strongly believe in that to override voice habits.

Megan Blacksmith  

Right? It’s been a breath of fresh air in that sense. It’s just I show up and I do the next thing versus you know, that old slate kind of checklist. Do the process it’s it’s not like that. So it’s just you, you live it and you do it. And it shifts and it’s very real time realizations every week. So yeah, helps Jen. Yeah, boys real time. And

Tracy Goodwin  

y’all are great. I mean, y’all are such an amazing group. And I find that all the groups are it becomes this incredible support system. And I think the first piece is the first day when everybody realizes I’m not the only one that feels this way. is already this. Everybody’s connected. Absolutely.

Megan Blacksmith  

Well, thank you so much for being here. Tracy, I appreciate you and your time. I know this is going to me a very popular episode. So appreciate you.

Tracy Goodwin  

Yeah. Well, thanks so much for having me. It was a great conversation.