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Radical Honesty with Megan & Nate

Megan is joined by a very special guest, her husband, Nate. Megan and Nate share personal backstories and recent realizations, revealing complexities and plot twists. They share their journey towards full honesty and vulnerability, and sharing their deepest secrets with each other.

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Megan Blacksmith  

Hello there lovely humans. I just finished an hour and a few minute conversation with my hubby, Nate. And this is the first time he’s ever been on the podcast. So we just shared so deeply, I’m having a little bit, a little bit of a vulnerability hangover, if you know what I’m saying. But I wanted you to be invited in. And I think this is a very important topic to share. So we go all in. Before we get into the interview, just want to remind you, we still have spots open for our January event. It’s in Virginia Beach, it’s January 19, and 20th. We’re going to hang out for two days together, we are going to lock in new habit. So if this is you, if you have been saying I cannot understand why I don’t just actually do the thing I say I want to do, we’re going to get to the root of that. Okay, we are going to get underneath we’re going to go to habits through the mind, the body, the heart, the spirit, we are going to give you tools and strategies for you yourself or if you work with clients for them too. So we’d love to have you there. We think this community is everything we know this is where people have met business partners, friends, clients, and in person you just, that’s just where it’s at. That’s my opinion. So come on down. In Virginia Beach, January 19, and 20th. We’re going to end the two day event with amazing sound healing from my local guru. He is so awesome, Brian. So that’s what we got. It’s time to join us. We’ll put the link in the show notes. It’s becoming zesty.com forward slash Jan J. N. And let’s get into this episode with me. I was I was nervous for this one. So just ignore my voice in the beginning. Oh, okay. Hello, everyone. Welcome back to the becoming zesty podcast. This is Megan here. And I have a buddy. I’m actually I’m actually nervous for this. I have my husband Nate here. We were joking. If you listened to season 15, there were 12 parts. It was my personal solo journey. It was a lot of things that he and I went through. And you got my side of the story. And not necessarily Nate’s side of the story. So we have been wanting to get together. We actually attempted to record this podcast a while ago as a follow up to that personal series. And surprise, surprise that never happened, which I think now I know why. And I’m realizing why because we really only had half the story, maybe a quarter of the story. We didn’t have much of the story back then. So if you haven’t listened to that, you could go back and listen to that first. Or you can listen to it after you can do whatever you want to do. It’s just It is really interesting because it was it’s the backstory and it’s also what I thought the conclusion was to the backstory. So I think that’s also has a fun plot twist of how things aren’t always good has you as they seem, and right now it feels like we’re in a big breakthrough. And like, like we like we finally got it, although we also thought that five years ago, so hopefully, hopefully I’m right right now. Okay. Welcome, Nate. Glad to have you here.

Nate  

Yeah, thank you. I’m excited to do this. I think it’s been something that’s been coming for a while now. But I feel like, like I’m personally in a place to be able to share from an honest, self Hans perspective, just from the recent work we’ve been doing so, yeah.

Megan Blacksmith  

Okay, so we’re gonna give you some backstory. We just recently were listening to a podcast about a couple and they were sharing about their recent realizations. And we both are pausing it. And we’re like, Yeah, but wait, like what happened? What was before this, we were so curious about how they actually got to where they were, and we get it, maybe you don’t, don’t all want all the details on the inter-webs. And we thought we would share a little bit more backstory than maybe is even comfortable. Of how we got to where we were about three weeks ago, three weeks ago, I shared a post on Instagram, it was the title, I believe, was how I learned not to lie two weeks before my 42nd birthday, based on a book that Nate and I had just read called Radical Honesty, and based on the process that we had then dove headfirst into after that, and the response has been just honestly, insane. The response has been even people saying, I haven’t even read the book, I read your post. And then I did all these crazy things. One person said, I have already filed divorce, like this was something that was just hanging around for 10 years, other people said, oh, yeah, I finally told my partner that thing that I’ve been wanting to tell them or a parent or a friend, so it’s like, the people around us at least, have been waiting for this and waiting for permission for this. And, gosh, in a way, I have a lot of anger, honestly, to have to just be finding this at 42. Like I actually just learned the level of withholding and lying. We’ll call it lying withholding of information that I do as a peacekeeper or protector. Keep it all together, keep myself safe. So in a way, I’m a bit more fired up about this than I have been about anything recently. Because it costs a lot. It’s not just a small thing of Oh, yeah, I withhold to protect other people or Oh, yeah, I don’t really tell the truth very often. And I wouldn’t have said I was a liar by any means. Like, that wasn’t a thing that I said, Oh, yeah, I just lie. I really consciously I don’t, I don’t feel like I lie anymore. I used to lie. I lied a lot in high school and college. And then now it’s turned more into the withholding part than not saying the things you really want to say. Or just saying just enough, but not really all the details, that kind of thing. And then I realized that it was really about not just withholding from other people, it withholding lying to myself, not even really knowing what I wanted, what I needed, and being able to date it. So that is the current situation. 

Nate

Absolutely. Yeah, I would definitely agree with that. You know, and even from, for me, just just realizing, like how much has shifted in me just being able to be honest with you, you know, just not only from a mental but physical standpoint as well. As and it’s, it’s like it’s it, to me, it always felt like there was always like, I’m almost there, I’m almost there and like I was doing all these different things, trying to you know, find the answers or, you know, try to find that magic pill and you know, but with this, it just kind of just pushed me over and now just like oh my god, it just felt so freeing. And I, to me, like this is medicine in itself. You know, just having that honesty, you know, and being able to share it and just be able to release it and unpack it. So yeah, very excited. Very excited. You know, how much or how far this this is going to take us and be able to come like this more. So that’s what I’m excited about. 

Megan Blacksmith  

We both are. So the actual thing that happened a couple of weeks ago was we read this book. And then we decided to do this full honesty dump, like we just totally each other everything that had ever happened that the other person didn’t know about everything. And we both decided that was a great idea, which was great and horrible at the same time. And we will share, we will get into exactly how that went and what we did and the process towards the end, although we really what we wanted to share with just a little backstory, because that’s what we felt like we were missing of kind of like, well, how did you get to this place where, what I would call it, we got to a place where we were doing really, really well like on paper, right? We actually, you know, Nate retired two years ago, he is home, he makes all the meals, he does all the grocery shopping, like so much support in the House, we have so much more time together, we talk we play game, we play splendor every day, right? We’re, we’re having doing all these things that I wanted to do and having all this time. And yet, we both didn’t really feel fully connected. Is that how you would?

Nate

Oh, absolutely. You know, but it’s also like, for me just struggling with other things on top of that, but yeah, I mean, the connection part. Definitely, you know, and, and, for me, it was just, I felt like I was withholding a lot. You know, consciously and unconsciously holding this. And, and, yeah, we definitely have a back story to share.

Megan Blacksmith  

Okay, so this is how we got ourselves into this. How we met not like our actual I mean, we met at a bar in Diego. So we’ll just throw that out there. But not really that more of the state of the emotional and life state that we were in, I think, is important because we kind of met in a certain state and carried that state out. This was back in 2005. So this has been a long time. When we met, I was gonna say we were drunk, we were actually drunk at the time and in life. Like we were in the numb numbing state we were in, have fun party, just do whatever you want state. I was in the I had the belief that men don’t hang a rock around for very long, right? So like, maybe four weeks, maybe six weeks, that’s about tops. And I meet Nate and he tells me he doesn’t have a cell phone number, or a cell phone, and hence a number. And I was like, oh, geez, here we go. Okay, this guy does not want to see me again. And I did then find out that you just meant deployed. Right? And actually didn’t are not deployed viewer in Japan and actually did not have a US phone yet. But Nate, tell, tell everybody, where what state were you in? When we met? What was kind of happening in life?

Nate

For me, it was at the time. I was in a relationship prior to meeting Megan and yeah, it just went south and I was still kind of going through the motions of that. But I, you know, just actively searching, you know, for something better, and, you know, wanting to feel just connected with someone who could understand me and relate to me. And of course, your you know, what was at the time 27, maybe 2627 years old at the time, and you know, being in the Marine Corps, you know, just having this this mindset of like, yeah, just trying to fulfill these needs. And in all this, and then knowing that when I met Megan, like I was deploying again soon, like, I was, I was leaving within the next month or two and wasn’t taking anything serious between us at the time. So I you know, that was that but in hopes that, you know, she would stick around, you know, until until I you know, till I returned so, but yeah, the state of mind was just kind of just fulfilling needs, you know, and

Megan Blacksmith  

just not too far out of divorce. 

Nate

True. Well, exactly. So yeah, so yeah, divorce from my first marriage back in 2003. So I was also in this mindset of just like not, not really giving a shit, honestly. And not really investing in Any relationship, but really just what did Nate want? You know? And, and, and that’s what I focused on of, of what, what my needs were and, and, and just doing whatever I could to, to to get it, you know, to be honest.

Megan Blacksmith  

That’s the thing we’re doing. 

Nate

Yeah. So very, very, very selfish in that way. But again, you know? Yeah, I mean, now that I look back on it, like I was I was struggling with a lot of things, you know, at that time and really didn’t know, I really didn’t know how to find the answers for myself. And, but, you know, it we’re here now it’s been a journey, you know, it’s been a journey since then. And but, yes, back then, you know, I was someone who was selfish, and very just very just thinking from an ego perspective as well, you know, being this marine, you know, who was top notch and doing all the right things, and very, you know, had these accolades of doing, you know, doing good, and, you know, and all that, but, you know, the way I look look at it is like, being that being, you know, experienced and all that back then, you know, I can, it was something to grow from, obviously, in something to learn from, and I didn’t know that at the time, obviously. But as I look back, it’s like, yes, you know, there is there stepping stones to this, and and I’m just thankful that, that our, our paths crossed at that time, because I kind of feel like we kind of attracted each other, you know, in a sense, and in here, we almost 20 years later, yeah.

Megan Blacksmith  

Well, we like to play we played out the anxious and avoidant dance for a long time. And so I attract people who aren’t very available. Right. So there needs to be avoidant. And, I mean, I actually remember I’m probably saying to my friends, like, I like projects, how do you feel about being a project name? It was like, I could see this pain, like this little boy inside of him. And I had this belief, I didn’t know anything about trauma at the time. So I was like, I’ll just stick around and be consistent. And he’ll, he’ll learn like that my love is real or love Israel. And it it’s kind of funny now. Because that’s not exactly. It’s not exactly as easy as that. And we both played a big part in the dance though. So right, like the anxious will move in and push and then the avoidant will withdraw. And then I also do the avoidant thing as well. So we played this pattern out, over and over and over. And the anxious person will is just as much of the dance as the avoidant because sometimes it looks like the avoidant is like not doing anything like not, they’re not available. And that’s their coping mechanism, whereas the other person has, in a way, I mean, I was causing it, like I was creating that. And I actually knew if I pushed, he’ll pull away, and so I would push so he’d pull away, so then my whole beliefs of like, men don’t stick around, or I’m not worthy of a good relationship would get fulfilled. So we were both really meeting our needs, it was or meeting our beliefs, it just was that the beliefs were not exactly great for a long term relationship, or great, they weren’t very positive, they were a kind of wounded version of our needs. So we played that out for a lot of years. To the point where I just kind of like the next step would come he got a move to you know, he was going to Hawaii for the next duty station for the military. I was like all go and I feel like I just kind of went wherever he was going. And I mean you’ve said at this point with our honest honesty journey, Nate that you were like, you kind of were just didn’t even know why kept sticking around. Right?

Nate

Absolutely. You know. And yeah, like thinking back on to Hawaii, you know, I remember like, like telling you like, Hey, I’m getting orders to Hawaii, you know, and just kind of leave it at that like I don’t know where this relationships gonna gonna go and I was prepared to like cut ties at the time. But here you are, like, Oh, I’m gonna come out there with you. I’m gonna No ship my car and I’m gonna, you know, quit my job and I’m like, Oh, okay to do this, you know, and, and then that happening, you know, and you end up moving out there and we ended up living together and, you know, and continuing that dance together, you know, but, but I was also, you know, struggling with alcohol as well, you know and drink in and you know, just you know, and then I know, many times during those, those drunk conversations saying all the right things and you know, Mr. Don Juan, you know, and schmoozing you up and telling you things that, you know, that I knew you wanted to hear, I guess he’s just trying to keep you around them, you know, and then when I sober up, you know, to be like, Oh, my God, what did I say? And now that we have these conversations, and you know, I’m sure that’s very confusing for you at the time, you know.

Megan Blacksmith  

Let’s talk about that a minute. That’s a really good point and part of the story because we there’s that we have a podcast we did recently about parts and parts integration. So definitely go check that out, if you haven’t, this was like an extreme version of parts. There were two parts of Nate, there was the sober part that was like, burned by marriage relationships moved around, like what literally every year to two years for your entire to three years for your entire life, right? So stuff isn’t steady. People aren’t steady, there’s there was that. And then there was drunk Nate, which he knows some people are like, Oh, alcohol is horrible. Because then people are mean, Nate was not he was a very kind, you were very kind drunk. It was all the love came out of like, I want to live with you. I want kids with you. I want and I chose my filter. I really didn’t realize I did this at the time. I didn’t realize that. That was the only time he was saying it. So I chose to filter out that I’m like, Yeah, we’re on the same page, not recognizing that. That was pretty much the only time he was saying that. So when there was confusion, of, you know, surprise, surprise, you all know, probably we have two kids. So like when I got pregnant, and I’m like, Wait, you’re not ready. You’re super excited. I’m sure. In your mind, Nate, you’re like, when would it? When did I ever say I want this. But that part would come out that part of him. And I’ve had this battle of like, well, which part is real? Like, did he really want it? And or did he not really want it? And my understanding of parts is that it’s both. And the the part that wanted it was just really, really protected in the sober state because it’s not safe. Like even if he wanted it, he it’s not safe or didn’t fully deserved it? Or, you know, well, then what will happen? So these two parts were very confusing. What was your experience of that those parts?

Nate

Well, again, you know, just reiterate, like I was married before, before I met you, and you know, I have twin daughters, you know, from my first marriage, and just having that separation from them and wanting to focus just on the twins in which we, you know, I flew him out, you know, to stay with us, right. And Hawaii while we’re out there and just spending time with them. And yeah, it was just thought of having, you know, other other kids in my life, who was was like trying to take the focus off the twins, right?

Megan Blacksmith  

Well, and you’re missing them so much. Right, exactly. So it was like, and I mean, let’s be honest, you had the belief that relationships don’t last, right? Right. So therefore, we would do this, we wouldn’t work out and then you’d have another kid you’d be missing. Yeah.

Nate

Yeah. And yeah, when you got pregnant with Lily, and I was just like, ah, like, what do I do now? You know, and just kind of in my head about it. And yeah, I went down and downward spiral and I was drinking and I was just like, in denial, in a sense, to where Yeah, I really didn’t fully support you during that timeframe. You know, and I know you and I had many discussions about this. And I held a lot of guilt because of that, you know, and, but by doing that, I could see like, how, how much power came out of you to try to fulfill that role, right of like, you know, what, it’s more you know, it’s more than just me and my relationship with with with, with Nate. You know, I’ve got to think about, about this child that I’m potentially after raised on my own because he’s just is not here, you know, he’s just not, you know, being being supportive individual that he used to tell me when he was drunk, you know, drunk and all that. So? Yeah, I mean, I held a lot of guilt because of that. And, you know, looking back, like, there were some things, you know that I wish I could have changed, but the things happened and, you know, eventually that led up to us being separated. And, you know, you know, you move back to the states and eventually move back to the States as well, you know.

Megan Blacksmith  

Actually, you moved first.

Nate

Yes, I moved first, I end up getting ordered back to California.

Megan Blacksmith  

Like I’ll stay in Hawaii a little bit longer. through it. Yes. But yes, I mean, so just recently, like, three weeks ago, and we had all this honesty, stuff come out, and all this stuff from the early parts of our relationship. And my brain went, Oh, my gosh, Megan, like you had so many opportunities to have your instinct kick in or like to trust your intuition that something’s not right. Because now I’m hearing about the actual evidence, right, that that was there. And that really was messing with me. I’m like, What the hell like, I just, I just was okay with this forever. I just like, like, ignored that. And then when I was really thinking back on the story, I was like, oh, no, I didn’t ignore that. But so like, I hit a tipping point after having baby number one. And we split up. We split up for about a year. I mean, you moved out for sure you left. And so in my mind, it’s, it’s almost like I forgot about that part. Like I, I did actually put my foot down and set a boundary. And then we ended up like sliding back into it. Because we had to continue the dance, right? Who’s gonna be my avoidant to my anxious. But the thing that’s about it is like I were both very, very stubborn. And so I was so stubborn, like when I when we got pregnant. I remember Nate, you were at one point were like, I guess we should get married. Because it’s like military, we could have I could have health insurance, all that and moving to Hawaii, I was in mechanical engineering at the time at a manufacturing plant. And my boss is like, hey, you know that there’s not like manufacturing plants in Hawaii, right? Like, that doesn’t happen there. It’s that would be very high real estate for something like that. And I’m like, oh, find a job thinking there would be something and no, there was nothing. So they kept me on my company in San Diego kept me on as a contractor. But I lost all my benefits and everything because I was like a 20 hour a week contractor. So this is how stubborn my acids I was I was like, I’ll go work at Starbucks. So I worked at Starbucks 20 hours a week to have benefits. And that’s how I tell I had the baby like that was those were the benefits I had. And so all along, it’s like, we were both. We were both stubborn about things. And also I was like, I will get married, but I want it to be. I want him to ask me and be excited. Not out of like, I guess we’ll do that. Right. And that was where the stubborn came in of like I will I will wait. I will wait. Yeah. Okay. So then what happened? Well, then we moved the mass to Massachusetts.

Nate

Yeah, we moved to Massachusetts, so. And that was 2014 2014 moved. Yeah. Then we got married 2015. And then we took a trip.

Megan Blacksmith  

Took our honeymoon before the wedding.

Yes. And from that trip, that’s when Megan got pregnant again with Paigey. Yeah, a little star child. But again, like for me, it was I still wasn’t fully committed.

Megan Blacksmith  

Right. We’re like, we just realized this in the last three weeks. Like I had this aha moment. I didn’t really remember telling me that I was not willing to move to Massachusetts without a commitment meaning a ring. And I like literally blocked that out. I don’t remember that. That’s not how my brain wanted to remember it because I was like, dang, I was like, I worked at Starbucks for insurance. Like if I were gonna do this whole like you have to do it ultimatum thing like I might as well have done it a long time ago. So that was an interesting realization through this whole process of honesty and telling each other everything. And I have realized how much I already know this, we teach this in our training how much we filter out. It’s just amazing to see how much I’ve filtered out from myself, or like, what Nate remembers where versus what I remember. And just, this, the parts we leave out are, are amazing to me. So a couple of weeks ago, as we’re having this conversation, I’m realizing I’m like, oh, shoot, you really? Still didn’t he? Didn’t you didn’t want to get married? Really? At that point? Still.

Nate

Right. Absolutely. And, you know, I would just wasn’t committed fully, you know, and I was just kind of going through the motions. In my memory, like, I remember, like, I was, I was drinking during the wedding. You know.

Megan Blacksmith  

Yes you are and I was pregnant.

Nate

You know, and, yeah, and, you know, and it’s, yeah, I mean, there was a lot of guilt around that, you know, and knowing that you deserved a lot more than that, you know, but

Megan Blacksmith  

alcohol was a really big part of all of all of this, for the avoidance. And then this for me turned into scorekeeping. So I’ve just like just in the last few weeks to realize why I do this, and why I’m sure I attracted you, Nate, someone that could keep the score in my favor, meaning what I realized was, I’m so afraid as this brought up as the Peacekeeper, and people pleaser are so afraid of like letting people down or having them having resentment, right. So everything I do is like to make sure that I’m always gets the martyr role, like, I’m always doing a little bit more or enough or, right. So if somebody else, if I have this big list of neat, here’s the 10 times you messed up, then in my mind, this is not true. I’ll just jump to the conclusion. It’s not true. But in my mind, then no matter what I did, like if when I mess up, because we’re going to its life. If I did something, then I would have this list to say, yes, but you can’t be angry at me. You can’t resent me you can’t reject me definitely can’t leave me because your list is longer. And so the list in the scorekeeping were just this big protection is protection mechanism. And unfortunately, what scorekeeping and lists that leads to a lot of resentment, and then the more resentment, I pushed towards Nate, the more that comes back towards me, and the more he’s gonna do whatever the heck he wants, because who wants to live with that? Right? And it’s like, making him wrong and the bad guy all the time. And that was, that was my way of attempting to get love.

Nate

Yeah, and definitely, for me, you know, I was just taking the punches, you know, I just feel like I deserved it. Right. But also feeling undeserving of that, as well, you know, at the same time, you know, and, you know, looking back on it, like, I was just, I was a wreck, I was a mess, I didn’t, you know, have direction, I didn’t have focus, I didn’t, you know, really didn’t know what what commitment was, you know, and, you know, like you mentioned, you know, just within the last three weeks, and when we started just being completely honest, and realizing that I have never been committed in any relationship ever, at all. And that was a big, like, holy crap, you know, like, that is, you know, unfathomable, in a sense, you know, I can’t think of one relationship where I was committed to them, you know, and it is sad, but at the same time, it’s, you know, it’s it’s a relief, to see that and to see that within myself and something to heal from something to forgive myself for and realize that I was, I was struggling, I was struggling, and I didn’t know how to find the answers for myself. And the only thing that really helped me was was drinking, you know, and knowing it, right and sedated myself from having to feel right to where I can feel good about some of the things and in thinking that, you know, you know what, it’s just just make yourself feel good, because that’s just something that I’ve, that I’ve seen growing up, you know, in, in, in my family, right, and we don’t talk about certain things, right. You just, you just got to just suck it up and deal with it, you know, and

Megan Blacksmith  

Well, you grew up moving all over and on reservations. And so there was a lot of chaos.

Nate

Absolutely. And not  really having a stable home and moving from family to family. And yeah, it was, it definitely was an experience for my siblings, and I, you know, and but, you know, I, I’m just fortunate that I was able to break free from that, you know, when I moved out on my own at 17, after I graduated high school, and I kind of broke free from that, where my siblings were kind of still stuck in that environment. And then shortly after I joined, you know, joined the military and, and made the Marine Corps, you know, my career for the next 2425 years, you know, 

Megan Blacksmith  

But got marine of the year, right, right out the gate, right? 

Nate

Yeah, it was very successful, you know, that’s where I put a lot of my focus in, because just, you know, found something that that I can, you know, invest in and, and see the accolades from that, and, and kind of grow from that, you know, and I joined the military, when I was, well, let me put his I had my 28th birthday in boot camp. So it took me a couple years, even after high school to try to figure out what I wanted to do, but at the time, I was in a relationship with my ex wife, and, you know, did the whole you know, Lance Corporal thing, you know, where you get married, as soon as you start, you know, getting, you know, getting the military get married, you know, start start a family and, you know, do all of that stuff without really realizing, you know, that you needed that foundation, and I didn’t have a foundation, you know, just kind of just figuring out, you know, as I go along with this, and, and that didn’t work out for me. So, yeah.

Megan Blacksmith  

You said something about you took the beatings, right. So like, there was this? Well, belief that you had done some shitty things. And you had that then therefore, anything I said, was, it was like, Okay. I mean, not that I’m right, but kind of like, you’ll win this battle every time and I knew it too. And that became, for me, that was like the safety thing of like, now I can ask for what I need. So again, if you haven’t listened to the, my personal series in season 15, one of them is about me finding out about an affair that Nate had six or so years ago now. And I remember, I mean, obviously upset and mad, whatever. But I also remember using this I remember finally being like, Oh, now I will ask for the things that I need. I was like, Oh, now you’re gonna pay the mortgage. Oh, now, you know, it was like, I needed there was a belief there that I needed to have all this baggage. Like all this stuff happened to me to then ask for what I needed. Versus like. I remember even I was going to the airport. And I remember thinking, Well, I can’t ask you to take me to the airport. Because in my mind, I like hadn’t done enough. Like on the checklist, like I hadn’t driven you. The last time I hadn’t helped recently. It was like, that was how I decided whether I could ask my husband to take me to the airport was based on this checklist. And you’re giving a face? Did you not even know that?

Nate

No, I wasn’t aware of that.

Megan Blacksmith  

Yeah, that’s exhausting. And it requires you to be really wrong all the time. Unfortunately, for you and me, we manifested that one.

Nate

Such good manifesters we are, right?

Megan Blacksmith  

Yeah, so it’s ike a really good point, though. It’s like I was calling all of this in like I for somehow some reason I needed like 15 years of it. I don’t know. I’m slow. Don’t be like me. So when I when I got my hands on that radical honesty book, and I was reading it, I had this knowing in my body, I was like, This is it. This is the thing and the basis of the book, read it or don’t read it. The guy’s really intense. I feel like I have to give like a fair warning. I mean, he like calls out a bunch of different people. He’s like, You need to be honest to everyone all the time, what you’re just everything, what you’re thinking, what you’re seeing what you’re feeling. And I don’t know, I also am really into nonviolent communication. And I think how you say it, and the words you say are important. So take that however you want. But what I heard was and, and my honesty was so far to the other side. I keep saying by the definition in the book, I feel like I was only honest 20% of the time. That’s like even honest with myself. And that’s it Not like straight up lying. It’s just like the honest with with myself part. So I knew, even if I swung the pendulum into like telling to like, you know, telling people the truth, I knew that I would probably just maybe end up in the middle because I had such a peacekeeper, so I was not worried, whereas some people are like, oh, gosh, you know, they’re gonna be honest about everything all the time and just say it to your face when you don’t want to hear it and that kind of thing. And that’s not. That’s not where we went with it. But when I was reading the book, I kept thinking about you, Nate, because I knew you had so much guilt around our past and how you’ve treated me. And the fact that I stuck around. And I knew that was there. So I was like, I bet he can’t even tell me. Small things, or resentments, or things that bother him about me, bother him about me. Yes. Because there was so much guilt there. I’m like, I bet he is holding on to so much stuff. As I was reading it. I was like, yes, it would be way more freeing for me to be honest. Because that was like, just protecting people’s feelings was such a big thing. And I knew, I just knew when I read that, I was like, This is us. This is our this is it. Like, this is the thing that’s keeping us I don’t think either of us can really be honest.

Nate

Yeah, I mean, even like when we’re sitting there three weeks ago, not sitting on the couch, and you’re like, let’s just start being honest with each other. And I’m just like, I just felt like this physical, like, Can I do this? Like, I don’t know, like, it was just so gut wrenching in a sense, like, I’ve never done this before. I’ve never really been fully honest.

Megan Blacksmith  

Yeah, it actually hurt physically.

Nate

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. But like you initiated it, and shared some things with me. And again, in my head, I’m like, Oh, shit, like, that’s nothing. Right. Like, but thank you for telling me. Yeah, you know, you know, and then when it came, you know, for me to share, you know, it was just like, couple breaths and just like, ah, you know, had to share, you know, the things that I’ve just really the big thing for me, it was just, you know, the infidelity and, you know, the timeframe of when it happened and

Megan Blacksmith  

things I didn’t know

Nate

Right. Yes.

Megan Blacksmith  

We’ll keep it vague for purposes of humans in our life.

Nate

But yeah, the infidelity was just like, oh my gosh, like it, but honestly, like, after I said it, like I could feel released, like my, I could just unloaded and like, I just physically felt lighter from it, and was just like, almost relieving. And I just feel it in my like, my being like, oh, my gosh, and, you know, other things, and you know, but I haven’t explained or, like, I’m sure there’s other things you know, and in, I’m probably have to share some other stuff, just just to get it all out. But at that time, it’s like, just those big things I’ve been carrying around for so long, who was just like, Thank you. Thank you. But

Megan Blacksmith  

well, we had attempted to do not attempted, we did a Couples Retreat weekend where we did a process like where you dump the bucket. So we had done a process like a pretty honest process where you tell the other person everything, essentially, that you’re, you’re mad at, or you have resentment about. So like, we dumped the bucket. And I told him and he told me and then we you refill the bucket and share everything that you appreciate, etc. So what was interesting, where we’re now realizing, so I dumped the bucket about everything that I knew. But you can’t dump the bucket about stuff you didn’t know happened. So what was missing from that process? Is the dumping the bucket of everything you haven’t told them? Right?

Nate

Yeah, definitely dump in the bucket of things that you are aware of. Right. You know, and and say, No, I resent you for blah, blah, blah, right, you know, stuff that you’re already aware of, but not dumping the bucket of the things that you’re not aware of? Because it’s, yeah,

Megan Blacksmith  

You don’t know that yet. Right. So in a way, I mean, it was it was a layer, it was important. I’m glad we did it. And even in that I was joking with Nate. So even in that process, where it’s facilitated, we had guards we was a safe container. I said you didn’t I know he did not actually dump the bucket on me because he he was just you were feeling guilty. And you’re like, I’m gonna let you dump the bucket. So I said everything ever I could ever think of and This guy says, I don’t like that you don’t match your socks. Really? That’s what you got. I’m like, I annoy myself more about other things than that then. And the one big thing that really did stick with me was you said, I’m mad at you for not leaving me, huh? Yeah, I was like, dang, I like actually just stuck around. Over and over and over. And he was put you were pushing me so hard to leave. You were pushing you were just doing everything anything. It’s like the little kid pushing up against the boundary like, Yeah, but if I break this rule, will you still love me? Right? And you just you just pushed it?

Nate

Alright. Like, even like the whole thing to Hawaii? Like, no, I’m going. Right. Like it was just okay. You know? And then another instance, you know, like, I’m sure there’s other examples. But yeah, you’re absolutely right. Like you just kept coming back. And, you know, what, what more? You know, I don’t know what it was. Who knows?

Megan Blacksmith  

Well, I have a strong belief that we are together in here, because both of our kids but especially our younger one has a whole has a whole journey here with her dad. That’s my belief. So that’s, that’s why we’re here.

Nate

Yeah, no, definitely like Paigey is just, 

Megan Blacksmith  

She here to either teach you or she’s here to she’s definitely here to clear she’s clearing generational trauma. She’s here for a lot of different reasons. So we needed to be together. And I this was my way of just pulling all the patterns and the beliefs to the surface. I mean, I’m just figuring this out, like three weeks ago, just I actually feel like this is just a new way of living. And as I’m talking to people, I’m like, am I the only one who’s been doing this? And no, it is many, many people are there’s lots of people have also said to me like we’re super just We’re super honest, in our family all the time. So definitely plenty of people who are. And most of us really, really were taught in the books, he talks about how the stronger the rules were right? The more right or wrong there was the more black and white thinking the more structure organizations, whether it’s schools, religion, whatever it is, but the more structure to military. The more we’re like we likely we are to lie or learn to withhold. Because at some point, you’re going to come up against something where you’re your parents, like, no, that’s not right. Or that’s not good. And you want to do it anyway. And so then you have to decide, well, do I do what they say? Because those are the rules, but I’m like, overriding that. That’s not That’s not what I want. That’s not what I like, or do I just go rogue? And then lied about it? So it’s fascinating watching our children right now. And like, oh, yeah, there’s lots of there’s lots of situations where you’re basically telling them to override what they want, and then they’re getting to choose that. Do they listen and conform? And then they will be air quote, good kids, because they’re not pushing back? And then what are they learning? So this has just been? eye opening? Okay, so Oh, yeah, this is one thing I want to share. So if you all listen to the, you know, the infidelity journey podcasts that I already shared, during that process, you know, I found out there was an affair. There was a woman, Esther Perel, who talks about relationships. And I remember reading a book, or maybe listening to her. I don’t know. And maybe she didn’t even say this was what I’m now realizing. But what I filtered out was my takeaway was not to know and ask all the details in an affair once you have the basic idea, right, like she said, You can’t unhear that unsee that and feel that so? This is not she wasn’t saying bury your head in the sand at all, but more like maybe don’t ask all the into intricate details, whereas in the radical honesty book, he’s like all of it. You will share all of it so because I had read this book, Nate, you had approached me saying there’s some more things I would like to share with you like there’s some more information there’s more that happened and at basically said, No, I can’t, I can’t handle hearing it, like I shut you down. Not quite knowing that the information that I shut you down on was actually very important that it actually still affects our day to day life like it is affects us in a lot of ways. And I just didn’t know that. So then for what, like, six, five years since that interaction, you said, you just thought you’d have to take that information to the grave. So when I said, Hey, I read this book, Nate hadn’t even read it. By the way, everyone, he hadn’t even read the book yet. He has now. But he hadn’t even read the book yet. When I came to him, like, why don’t we do this thing where we tell each other everything that we’ve lied about? And you said, This feels like a trap? Like valid? And we’ve talked about this, because, honestly, if you had told me three years ago, I think I would have just been out at that point, and where I was, and the tools I had, so it is kind of like, if someone doesn’t have any tools at all, like, is it the best advice to say, hey, go to your partner and dump all this stuff? Like when they have no tools? I don’t know, we have a lot of tools. So I was like, Okay, we talked through it, we’re like, alright, well, what’s the worst that can happen? You’re gonna get really upset and you’re gonna freak out. You’re gonna leave, we talked about like, what could happen? I’m like, Okay, are we able to trust that whatever this information is that I can go process it that I have the tools to figure it out? Like, yes, I might. I might need a little time. I might, I don’t know, we just, we, I guess you. I’d love to hear your side. What did you actually feel like this was a steal a track or safe at this point? Or were you just like, whatever, it’s, it needs to come out?

Nate

Yeah, it definitely needed to come out. And yeah, I guess the best way I could put it is like you, you, you gave me this opportunity. And now I’ve just like holy shit, let’s just let’s just get it out. Let’s just get it out. Now, you know, even though I was physically feeling, you know, an effect of it. But again, like, just reiterate, just being able to unpack it and just share, it was just so relieving for me. But again, there were still some aftershocks after that, you know, and like one of my full body was just like shaking, and I had to do some tre and just kind of get it out of my system. But I felt I felt great. And you know, and in being able to be able to share that and release it and not have to carry it anymore. But I’ve also witnessed, well not witnessed, but experienced it, you know, as I’m sharing this honesty, with, with other people, you know, close friends of mine that you know, you know, just some things that I just want to be honest about, and it’s really, it’s connecting us more. And so I’m seeing, you know, the positive effects of this, you know, but again, just like what you said is that, you know, there’s a way to communicate that, right, rather than just, you know, just dump it all out, you know, and so I think this is just going to be a continuous journey for us to be honest with each other and with the relationships and, and just learn how to communicate in a way that it is able to be received in a way, you know, rather than just dumping it out, and just put it all on the table, just raw, you know, and but you’re definitely right, like the tools and are definitely imperative, you know, when when you’re receiving that, like, even for me, like I did talk to one of my coaches afterwards and try to, you know, get some guidance, right. And be able to relieve some of that guilt, you know, and that’s, that’s a big thing for me, right is guilt and shame and lying and all this stuff and what we did, you know, last week and was very, very helpful as well very, very cleansing in a sense to be able to, you know, write that down and send it to the you know, send it to the flames you know, which is 

Megan Blacksmith  

Well basically, your,  as you were talking with your coach. He was reminding you that even though all this information has just come out now, like this is all pre affair. This is all pre rehab. This is all like this is six plus years and years ago, Nate right. So he’s like, I understand that putting everything in one place like if you you’re listening and you think about everything I’ve ever done to hurt someone in one place. That’s not going to feel very good. And he’s like, this is is not you anymore. This is an old identity. This is many iterations past. So he suggested a some kind of ceremony of dropping that old identity. So we decided to camp and write and burn that old identity, which was a really, really powerful just process that we did together. And not just that, I want to share more of that, because you had said at one point, like, you were worried I would maybe leave you with this information. Yes?

Nate

Yes. Right. And the reason why I’ve said that is because I, because of this journey that we’ve been doing together, and since, you know, 2017, or whatever, in my mind, and I felt like I just fully committed to you, right. And that’s, and I wanted to keep honoring that, you know, and some that I had, but really, it didn’t really like feel like full commitment, because I was still sharing, are still having a secret and still had this guilt. Right. So that really wasn’t fully commitment in my mind, even though I was verbally telling you this. 

Megan Blacksmith  

Right?

Nate

Right.

Megan Blacksmith  

So I had said that the old stuff was the old stuff, and there wasn’t, there wasn’t any like, I’m gonna leave because of this old information. What, what we did realize is like, we both got to this point of, we’re not willing to do mediocre anymore. We’re not willing to do the opposite. We’re not willing to do the withholding any more like we actually, since this, these last two weeks, we live, we’re living this every day, we’ve had probably a conversation every day, right? And honest conversation of like, we’ve opened up something kind of deep, pretty much every single day since pretty much yes. So like every Conversations, I’m like, wait a minute, I can hear things in his voice that I couldn’t hear before. Like, I can hear the resentment because I was like, oh, no, there can’t be resentment. Remember my big long list, you’re not allowed to do that. I’m the resentful one. And so all of a sudden, I’m like, I can hear the resentment. So we’re talking about something and I’m like, wait, what? What was that there? And because we’ve now done the honesty thing, and I think both of our bodies are like, okay, it’s actually safe. Like, this isn’t a trap. We’re having a conversation every day. Because we did that first dump on day number one. And I remember you said, if I think of something else, like, can I tell you like this, this is this one container option? And I said, Well, I want to live this way. I want it to be in the moment that you’re like, Hey, I just did this thing. And I’m feeling a little bit guilty about it, even though I didn’t, you know, it’s no big deal. But my thoughts were this and I’m feeling guilty. And I’m going to tell you like I want it to be real time. Honesty? And which are you had mean total relief from that?

Nate

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And it’s just yeah, I think this is just propelled us, you know, like I was talking about earlier, it’s like, I felt like I was right there doing all these things. Right, you know, especially since 2017, you know, going to Tony Robbins date with destiny and doing those things and get introduced, you introduced me to Dr. Joe Dispenza. And going to a couple of his events and, you know, getting introduced to plant medicine and thinking that was the answer and doing multiple ceremonies and,

Megan Blacksmith  

and to Master Practitioner NLP training. 

Nate

Right,exactly, you know, and got my certification. And, you know, being able to coach you know, and having these tools and resources, you know, it’s just been like, layers and stages of this, right. And, as, you know, it just takes time, it takes patience, but also takes a lot of work, right and realization, but what the honesty thing is just like it’s just helped me get over this hump that I felt like I needed to be able to just be free, and be able to be honest and open and be able to share from a place of, you know, authenticity and be genuine, you know, and and I’m grateful that we’re able to do this now. You know, it’s so relieving. I feel so more connected to you. And it’s definitely helped us here in the bedroom.

Megan Blacksmith  

It was so crazy. After the first time we actually shared, we had like the most amazing date and then the most amazing sex. And we both were like what’s happening? We just told each other you know, I shared plenty of things too. I’m not trying to make this sound like Nate was the only one with secrets. So I had also shared plenty of things. And what we did and what I did in the process because people are like everything. And the guy in the book says everything but what what I think and what we’ve decided for the barometer of deciding what you share I looked for anything, I literally was scanning my body for anything that still had guilt or shame. So I told them anything that I felt like was a lie to him directly. But then I also was like, Okay, what else? So I just went through any thing I did high school, college as a kid, anything that came up to my mind that had like, I’m still kind of, I still have shame around that, or I still have a feeling around that. So I’ve been we’ve been dumped that kind of thing that was amazing to just have a witness that safe space of, yeah, I’m still kind of embarrassed about that. And, and it was amazing how my brain pulled up some things like I’d shared and like, yeah, that’s it. And then I was like, oh, shoot, it would pull up something. And it would be like, I’d have that icky feeling of like, I don’t even want to admit, I did this. To myself, like that I did this, I don’t even want to tell myself, I did this, I had buried some stuff deeply, and just never told anybody at the time. So in a way, and the only person who knows, so it it. To me, it was like didn’t happen. And it did. So the pattern was that day one. And I want to share this too, for anybody who kind of digs into this journey, especially with a partner. Day two, we had another round of this, where that’s when you came to me, like fully shaking, and was like, oh, gosh, there’s more to say, which of course was scary. He’s having a trauma response, where it’s like, is this is gonna be the stuff that gets me kicked out, right? Like, is this going to be over the edge? And we had had an agreement that we would ask each other, right, so as you know, we’re like, this is gonna be open policy. And like, if I’m about to go into a podcast or a group call, there needs to be some kind of like, is this a good time for a dump the bucket. So we did, we had worked that out. But the day two, and then the day three, those dumps, those hurt a lot more like we both went down emotionally. For a few days, like I had, you know, I did a full, you know, two hour session with my coach, you did sessions with your coach. So it was really like super connecting. And then there was some like vulnerability, hangover aftermath, some realizations of like, life is not what we thought it was, who am I? Who are you? What does this mean about us? Right? 

Nate

Yeah, like, maybe that helped you and I that trip, you know, it gives you kind of gave me the space that I needed probably at the time.

Megan Blacksmith  

Basically, after day three, we had three days of this. And then day four, I was already planning going to California for the James Wedmore event, which I’m actually going to share on a separate podcast what ended up happening, which was insane and amazing, because I fully believe because I dropped like this, my personal power is back from telling the truth, the things that were holding us back in business, and the things that are holding us back in our relationship are related to not, I wasn’t able to really be me, because of this withholding, so that I will share that later. Because I was so cool at how being honest about my horribly vulnerable state. And being real and raw actually got me business, when I’m like, nobody’s gonna want to work with a transformation coach, who’s been hiding this shit from herself for 20 years. And now I’m realizing people still want to work with me, because I’m really good at finding other people’s stuff. And that’s also why I get a coach. Yeah, so I went away, and that gave you some space and me some space.

Nate

Yeah. And, you know, me being a projector, you know, dealing that, that space alone to try to, like, what the fuck just happened? You know? And, you know, and like, there were still some aftershocks and residual stuff coming up, you know, and just kind of like, ah, you know, but I was able to work through it. And, you know, have that time and, you know, put some focus into it. And, yeah, I think that was something that we were probably afraid of like, what’s going to happen when you get back? Right? Are we going to be able to sustain that? You know, that that honesty, train, you know, and keep it going. And, you know, we were able to do that. But I think that was very helpful, for sure.

Megan Blacksmith  

So far, so good. Well, so that’s where we are right now. This is a real time coming to you in real time. I have had a belief that as a coach, I need to have my stuff figured out before I share it. And really what keeps happening is when I share it in the moment, people seem to still appreciate it even though it is very much in the messy stages. We’ve had enough. We’ve seen enough benefit already. Basically, because of this every single person I interact with my family, my parents, my brothers, anyone who was injured acted with me since has gotten a little like, hey, I want to be honest with you. And I think one of the things that I’ll share about the way that I’m doing that, and the way we’re doing that, it’s, it’s more about, I’m being honest with you about me, versus you did this stuff. Because I think that’s what people are really bothered by with the honesty thing of like, I don’t want someone just coming up to me and being like, I think your face is ugly, that’s honest, right? Like, this is more, what is it doing for me, so I will reach out to someone and be like, hey, when you never showed up to that event, I made it mean that you don’t care about me. And then I went into a very unhealthy pattern of avoidance and just haven’t contacted you since and kind of wrote you off in my head. So that is like what I said to someone versus like, what they did. And I even said, I even said, when you didn’t show up, I made it mean this, and you probably were just busy. And then that person was able to really explain what actually happened for them. Because they’d never, they didn’t even know I was upset, because I just didn’t communicate. So that person didn’t get a chance to even explain it was a total misunderstanding. We were able to not just repair but connect more. And I even said, if you have anything to share with me, go ahead. And they did. And so that’s part of it, is it’s going to come back to you. And I think I had the belief that I couldn’t handle hearing bad things about me that somehow I couldn’t handle it, which is also not true, I’ve realized.

Nate

Absolutely. And like for me, like, honestly, just having a real conversation and being honest with you know, one of my best friends that I grew up in the Marine Corps with, you know, like, he had said some things to me, and, you know, I just had to come from an honest place and just tell him how I felt about it and reach out to him. And, and that was, you know, very, very relieving at the same time, where otherwise I would just like, you know, who gives a shit, you know, whatever, but just being honest with them kind of just helped us both to understand, like, you know, like, this is, this is something here, you know, and be even with close friends, you know, some some people you probably just can’t be honest with, you know, and, and I even told him, like, you know, I would love to coach you, but I think at the same time, it just, were too close, we knew we know too much about each other, right? You know, to be able to like point at each other’s flaws and like, Well you tell me about this, but look what you did back then right type of thing. But just being able to be you know, share how I was feeling and being honest with him and actually really strengthen our, our connection and our friendship. So yeah, there’s, this is Madison, it’s the best way to put it, you know, from from my perspective with just being able to say what you want or say what you mean and be honest with it and be able to communicate in a way that it’s that it’s received, you know, from a loving place. And in I know I struggle, you know, between the heart and the head community, you know, connection and you know, and that’s, that’s where I want to be you know, and you know, be more out of my head and into my heart when I’m when I’m communicating how I feel. So definitely a work in progress. For sure. Absolutely.

Megan Blacksmith  

So we are at the point where we dropped the old identities and so like right now we’re not we don’t have our rings on because our right like you heard our wedding and our marriage and the things before this just really weren’t based on love. They weren’t based on they’re not we didn’t meet in the identities we are now we just to me, it’s like just kind of false, it’s just not really true. So our next steps are now putting in place like how do we meet as new identities? How do we recommit as new identities and just something I just personally want something different to represent that so it’s been really cool because Nate, you’ve really stepped into like the masculine energy of you know, I said I’d like to do something to like drop the old identity and he booked the camper he got the babysitter all these things we’ve been saying we can’t do we can’t get a night away and he made it happen and he set it up I got there everything was there my frother and mud water was there okay. Important thing Yes. Like everything you know the details he had to down to the details and I just felt so taken care of and that’s what we had said like all the past is in the past, but now from here on like, I want to be more in my feminine. He wants to be more in his masculine and continue the honesty but just like reset. We’re starting over with the versions of us now and really able to just be okay with that. I’m like, well, that stuff all happened. And it was a long time ago. And we’re just, we’re just different people. So that will be the next part. The next update will be whatever we decide to do for that. Right?

Nate

Yeah, looking forward to it. You know, let’s just keep this going. And, yeah, I mean, I’m willing to share whatever we can. And hopefully, you know, this, this helps the listeners out there to like, say, Hey, this is possible, you know, but really, you just got to be honest with yourself, too. And that’s another big thing. 

Megan Blacksmith  

It’s possible for us. Like, we had some shit. So, you’ve got thanks for sharing my thank you. All right, we will probably have a part two. We’d love to hear your feedback on this. I know this general topic has been stirring up a lot of things and a lot of people. So we’re here for you and your transformation, if you resonate with just being in more transformation spaces. Keep in mind that we have our January event January 19, and 20th. In Virginia Beach, we would love to have anyone join us live for two days digging into habits. I’m sure there’s going to be more honesty talk because, you know, I just can’t not at this point. All right. Thank you so much for being here.